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Interview with Karla Turner, Ph.D.
From Contact Forum, May/June 1995
(Note: Karla Turner was a dedicated and compassionate woman who helped
many abductees come to terms with their abusive alien experiences, and was
not afraid to tell the truth, no matter how bizarre it might have sounded.
Karla has appeared on the Montel Williams show and other programs to
discuss her research. She passed away as a result of a particularly
deadly form of terminal cancer. She will be missed. Some suspect that
the cancer was induced via radiation received from earlier abductions, but
this cannot be confirmed. This is a rather extensive interview, so we
will deal with only some of the highlights. Once you have finished
reading the following you, like myself, may also become a firm advocate of
"draconicide"! - Branton):
INTRODUCTION:
CF: You are widely regarded as one of the leading experts in the
field of UFO and "alien-abduction" research. How did you get started in
your study of these things?
KT: Our family knew nothing about the phenomenon when we started
having UFO sightings and abduction encounters. Being a researcher, I
turned to the UFO literature for an explanation. When I absorbed what was
available, I found no answers that I felt were trustworthy. I decided
that this was a crucial situation for my family (if not globally), and the
only way I could get answers was to do the research myself. The only way
to do the research, in this case, was to go out into the field and deal
with abduction cases.
PERSONAL HISTORY -- "INTO THE FRINGE":
CF: Was "Into the Fringe" the first result of that? [Karla's first
book]
KT: Actually, "Into the Fringe" was not a result of research to gain
answers. It is more of an account of my family's awakening to, and coping
with, these experiences during the first year and a half, when they were
very intense. It was not until after that that I started to branch out
and work with other people. I worked with Barbara Bartholic on our case,
and began working with her on other cases. Many times she would come to
Texas (where I lived) and we would set up a four-or-five-day work session,
during which people in that area who wanted to work with her would come to
my home. She would interview them and place them under regressive
hypnosis there. I began to learn by acting as her assistant. (If Ph.D.'s
were available in this field, Barbara should certainly have one. Working
with her proved to be much more educational than my academic career.) Then
Barbara's caseload got so heavy that she was no longer able to handle it.
It was no longer enough for me to assist, and I had to being doing
preliminary investigative work myself. And that was how my involvement
developed.
GENERATIONAL ABDUCTIONS:
CF: We have been finding, in a lot of cases, that experiencers'
parents, sometimes their great-grandparents have had the same types of
encounters that they have. Is that what you found in your family?
KT: Yes, it is definitely "transgenerational" in Elton's family.
[Elton, Dr. Turner's husband, was given the pseudonym "Casey" in the books
'Into the Fringe' and 'Taken'. They no longer feel it is necessary to
protect his identity.] Before Elton's grandmother died, in 1990 or 1991,
the family knew she was near the end of her time here, so they asked her
to tell some of the old stories, and videotaped her response for
posterity... My mother refuses to say anything, because it is just too
frightening to her. She has not yet even finished reading "Into the
Fringe". Each time she reads a page or two, she becomes so upset that she
can't go any further -- which tells me that there is probably a reason for
her feelings. I remember that, in 1965, when I was a senior in high
school, a big flap was making national news. It was one of the few times
that I had ever paid attention to the UFO thing. One day, Mother and I
were listening to the TV while doing something in the kitchen. Walter
Cronkite was talking about the UFO flap, and I told Mother that if a UFO
landed in the backyard, I probably would go get on it. My mother, who is
extremely gentle, and who never raised her voice or hit me, stopped what
she was doing, grabbed me by both shoulders and shook me until I felt as
if my teeth would fall out.
All the while, she was saying, forcefully, "You swear to me, you will not
ever, ever, ever get near one! Don't you dare even say that!" It was the
only outburst I have ever known my mother to have in my entire life. I
now know -- from research -- that extreme responses like that to this
phenomenon are often indicators that a person has had experiences.
HYPNOTIC REGRESSION:
CF: You mentioned the use of hypnosis, which has been the subject of
a lot of controversy. Some of the other researchers have said that people
under hypnosis can come up with scenarios that did not happen, in order to
please the hypnotist. Some have said that the multiple levels of
experience -- where one can break through screen memories and ferret out
buried memories that are different -- are artifacts of the process of
hypnosis. What are your opinions about these issues?
KT: I think those positions are completely untenable, they grow out
of what I call armchair research. I don't conceive you will find them
being espoused by anyone who has actually had the experiences. If they
have been through them and want to come back and talk about what happens
when they undergo hypnosis, to look at what they consciously remember,
then we can have a dialogue. Right now, they are speaking without
knowledge. They are speaking hypothetically, and their opinions are based
on erroneous understandings of the phenomenon, of the experiences, and of
the control exerted upon abductees during these experiences. It is easy
to philosophize any number of explanations, but that does not mean that
those explanations have any relationship to what is really going on. Also,
there are bad hypnotists and good hypnotists. (Note: A bad hypnosis is
one who in essence takes advantage of the individuals psychological
vulnerability by engaging in what amounts to 'psychological rape'. A good
hypnotist will NOT violate a persons' will, or try to alter their
perception of reality, or inject unsolicited post-hypnotic suggestions in
the individuals mind, or attempt to make them do or believe things that
they would NOT consciously accept while in a waking state. THIS is the
danger of hypnosis. While in this state, a hypnotic subject is completely
at the mercy of the hypnotist. This is why a hypnotist dealing with
suppressed memories must be someone WHO CAN BE ABSOLUTELY TRUSTED, and one
should NEVER be "put under" unless there is at least one other trustworthy
individual in the room monitoring the hypnotist. Hypnotism is serious
business and should NOT be attempted by anyone who is not qualified. -
Branton). A bad hypnotist probably can foul up a number of things. I
know that people who have gone to hypnotists for smoking or dietary
problems have sometimes suffered more after hypnosis. Obviously, some
things can be mishandled. But my experience with hypnosis and the
veracity of what is recalled has, in several cases, been proven to me to
be accurate. I have been able to investigate these cases. At times
erroneous material does surface, or is created because of the situation,
but that is not typical. I conclude that hypnosis is, by and large, one
of the most excellent tools we have. Used properly, it may be the only
tool we have to get certain pieces of information (or levels of
information) back up to the conscious state. I have been able to test a
number of hypnotically recalled memories against externally verifiable
evidence, and they have proven to be correct.
SCREEN 'MEMORIES',
CHAMELEONS AND 'NAZIS':
CF: You have found, have you not, that sometimes there are multiple
levels, like the layers of an onion? An experiencer undergoes hypnosis
and comes up with a scenario, then, when he is regressed to a deeper
level, he breaks through the first level (you find out that it was a
screen memory), and a different scenario emerges.
KT: Yes, and it seems to me that, in some cases, a bottom level can
be reached.
CF: How many layers are there; how deep can you go; and what's at
the bottom?
KT: We have not done enough research to answer any of those
questions without being an armchair philosopher. Typically (not always)
the first recall deals mostly with conscious information. When the
subject is taken to the next deeper level of the trance state and asked to
focus, often what will be reported is that what was seen was not the same
as the conscious recall. Then a groping process begins. The subject
thinks, "This was inaccurate; I feel that something was wrong; and when I
focus, I see that it was not what I thought it was." That is a
transitional level. There may be only a couple of levels -- as opposed
to, say twenty levels -- but there certainly is a cover level, underlain
by a more solid foundation. If the subjects are helped to program their
mental computers to penetrate illusion and to speak only truthful,
accurate statements, to, as Barbara has often said, "clarify vision," then
they will recall radically different scenarios -- not expanded versions of
the firsts scenarios, but something quite different from what their
conscious memories had left them with. There are at least two levels, and
possibly three.
CF: People have told us that they can break through screen memory
after screen memory until they get to a scenario involving reptilians, and
that is as far as they can go. Have you found that to be the case?
KT: In the few cases that I am very familiar with, when the "base
line" was reached, reptilians were involved.
CF: Are the greys always involved in the top level?
KT: Sometimes the first level involves greys, sometimes humans,
sometimes Pleiadians, sometimes strange animals.
CF: Abductees tell stories of seeing beings -- angelic Nordics, for
example -- and then, when they concentrate and try to focus on their
memories of those beings, they disappear, and behind them are these
"lizard people."
KT: I am not familiar with a number of cases. I have heard other
researchers talk about the same thing. In one case that I recount in
"Into the Fringe," James had mostly conscious recollections and almost no
hypnosis. He remembered being drawn into the proximity of a beautiful
"Pleiadian" woman, who was very alluring and tender, and almost seductive.
She wanted him to come into her embrace. When
he got into the embrace, and thought she was going to kiss him, she
disappeared entirely, and what was left in her place was a purplish-black,
bumpy, almost slimy-looking character with fairly asymmetrical features. I
have encountered this same type of creature in a couple of other cases.
The entity was very strong. Instead of embracing James, the creature
threw him down on the ground and shoved a two-foot-long tube down his
throat, into his stomach, and pulled up stomach juices. The next day, he
still had some of the bile taste, the interior of his throat was sore, and
he discovered claw marks around both sides of his neck, where he had been
held down. Whatever the entity was, there was something claw-like about
it (which, of course, matches reptilians). Maybe, as close as he was to
it, he could not perceive the whole figure. But he could see a bumpy
covering, which could equate to the rough, scaly exterior sometimes
reported to be reptilian. It is described as bumpy, ridged, bony, strong,
clawed.
CF: Apparently these beings have the ability to project different
images.
KT: Some people say that they transform -- that they mutate or
change their own real forms. I don't accept that as accurate. I don't
believe they really look like a blond, and they do something to trick you
and then they suddenly look like a reptilian. I think that what they
alter is human perception. They certainly can project false images --
just as Ted's [Ted Rice's] grandmother was shown her dead husband, so that
she would consent to have a sexual encounter. Ted's grandfather had been
dead for six years. And in the middle of having the encounter with what
she thought was her restored husband, the image disappeared -- I suppose
because the aliens wanted to get the "emotional juice" from her -- and she
saw a 'reptoid' on top of her. We also have heard stories about military
people being present during abduction, and when people focus on them, they
change. Budd Hopkins tells a story about a person who saw a military
policeman. He wondered why on Earth the MP was there, and tried to focus
very carefully on him. When he did so, the MP changed, before his eyes,
into an officer of high rank, and then into a NAZI officer. (Note: Under
regressive hypnosis Barney Hill -- who along with his wife Betty claimed
to have been abducted by reptilian 'grays' from Zeta Reticuli -- also
reported seeing a "German Nazi" military officer on the craft, working
with the aliens. This is suggestive that the CIA more-or-less inherited
the alien collaboration agenda that was initiated by the 'Baverians' in or
around 1933. - Branton) The aliens cannot allow us to be involved with
them in our normal state of mind because we would be under our own
control, and that is not what they desire."
[Further statements from
Karla Turner by subject]:
THREATS THROUGH THE USE OF CLONES:
"...She was told, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll replace you with this
and nobody will know the difference.' When Ted was a teenage, he and a
number of other teenagers were abducted together and shown copies of their
bodies. In this instance, too, the clones were used as threats."
ALIEN USE OF CLONES:
(Note: The cloning of lambs and monkeys is a
documented FACT in our society, so it is not beyond the limits of
possibility to suggest that a hi-tech alien culture might, unfortunately,
succeed at cloning human beings. - Branton)
"Ted recalled a process whereby his original body was killed. They
first gave him a glowing, green, fiery substance to drink. It made him
extremely nauseated. He vomited it immediately, and then they cut off his
head [and his vital fluid was drained from his body into a container].
When his soul energy -- or whatever you want to call it -- came up out of
his body, it remained attached to the body at this lumpy, glowing, green
liquid area. It appeared to be unable to get free of that.
They sucked it into a little black box, which was set on a counter while
the aliens readied his new cloned body. Then they put probes into the
shoulders, neck and feet of the new body to activate it. Once it began to
breathe, the soul energy could be put into it. His soul energy, which had
been stored in the little black box ever since they killed his first body,
was introduced into the new body, and because the body was breathing, it
was trapped there."
(Note: During this abduction Ted encountered tho
other 'clones', a young boy and a girl. This took place inside a MASSIVE
space station, dark green in color with 'spikes' reaching out of it like
one might see on a old World War II floating 'mine'. Smaller ships would
enter and exit via these 'tube' extensions. He only encountered a few
humanoids on board the massive ship, a red-haired women with little or no
emotional expression, a dark haired hybrid type 'man' with a malevolent
disposition, and a 'kind' man with short blond hair who attempted to
nullify his apprehensions throughout it all. Although there were some
'Bigfoot' type people, some dwarfish hairy humanoids, large 'Mantis-like'
insectoids with remarkably 'human-like' facial features, and numerous
bizarre or grotesque beings which seemed to be genetic hybrids composed of
both human-like and animal-like features within this massive station, the
greater majority of the aliens were of the common reptilian-insectoid
'Grey' variety. - Branton)
DRACOS 'NEED' EMOTIONAL ENERGY AS FOOD?
"Evidently, a body that has had soul energy in it -- one that absorbs
certain kinds of emotional energy -- is more nutritious than a 'flat' body
that has not been through life processes. Let's say that, at eight or
nine years old, you have lived some already, and you have some emotional
storage going on already. If they kill your nutritionally 'yummy' body
for their use and put your soul material into a cloned body that has not
had life experience, then they can let you go through several more years
in that body and build up emotional energy in it. Then it will be ready
for them to eat, and they can continue the process again, many times."
(Note: The reason the reptilians feed off of human vital fluids in a
vamperial-parasitic manner, it seems, is because they are in symbiotic
relationship with astral parasites which use the reptilian bodies as
'hosts'. The astral parasites have absolutely no connection to the
Creator or the Divine, who is the source of the essence of all life
force/manna energy, and so they exist in an anti-life field/state and must
steal life force second hand, much like a black hole or a sink hole or
wallstreet or a cancer tumor vampirizes everything around them to feed
their insatiable hunger... in so doing they grow ever larger and deformed,
moreso than God or nature intended, and therefore 'require' ever more
energy, which is usually stolen from the weak and defenseless. In a
sense, these kinds of symbiotic aliens operate as individual cancer cells
within a collective alien 'tumor', and they should be dealt with
accordingly!!! - Branton)
PSYCHIC VAMPIRES AND INDUCED EMOTIONAL
TRAUMA:
"Abductees are put through other kinds of programming and compulsions.
The only commonalty that I can see in all of them, so far, is that they
all cause great upheaval and produce great amounts of emotional energy.
And maybe tastier bodies. But certainly immediate energy production."
HOW THE ALIENS MIGHT CONTROL THE LEADERS:
"Personally, I believe one could control political leaders more
easily with implants. Now, if they wanted to use one of their own souls
(although some would debate whether these reptilians have souls at all,
other than the astral entities possessing them - Branton), perhaps to
inhabit the body of a politicians and work full-time through it, that
could be done. Perhaps they could simply take the soul out and stick
another soul in. They have the ability to retrieve what we call the soul,
to store it in a container, and to put it back into another body. They can
put it in any body they wish."
ANY POSITIVE (ETHICAL) ETs?
"I do accept there are intelligent forces that can contact and inform
us -- perhaps to help us help ourselves."
(Note: Contactee Alex
Collier says that there are. He was told by his alleged friends' from
Zenatae Andromda - who like most federated human-occupied worlds are
descended from the ancient Lyran-Terran alliance in the times of Muria and
Atlantis, to which most if not all human-like ETs can trace their
ancestrage - that three federated carrier ships, Andromedan, Pleiadean and
Tau Cetian, had intercepted a huge Dow-Gray alien carrier ship that had
emerged from the ocean floor and was trying to skip-planet with a load of
hybrids, human children in cryogenic freeze, and literally thousands of
human 'souls' that had been 'harvested' and which were discovered
trapped-contained WITHIN SMALL ELECTROMAGNETIC BOXES, apparently to be
used as ectoplasmic energy sources by the aliens. So we may very well
have friends out there, which is probably why some reptilian ETs [for
instance the 'greens' and the 'greys' within the Dulce - Los Alamos -
Kirtland AFB megabase that are working with the 'OMEGA AGENCY'] insist
that there are no 'nordic' or 'human federation' ETs out there. Of
course the LAST thing these dracs desire is for us Terrans to join up with
these federated human starfarers, especially in an alliance AGAINST their
reptilian collective. - Branton)
UNDERGROUND ALIEN BASES:
"Abductees report seeing other humans in these facilities being
drained of blood, being mutilated, flayed, and dismembered, and being
stacked, lifeless, like cords of wood. Some abductees have been threatened
that they, too, will end up in this condition if they don't cooperate with
their alien captors."
(Note: We've had "Operation DESERT Storm"...
anyone for "Operation DUNGEON Storm"!? - Branton)
HUMAN CHILD
ABDUCTIONS:
"Aliens come into homes and temporarily remove young children, leaving
their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. In cases where a parent
has been able to protest, the aliens insist that 'The children belong to
us.'"
RAPE AND FORCED SEXUAL ABUSE:
"Aliens have forced their human abductees to have sexual intercourse with
aliens and even with other abductees while groups of aliens observe these
performances. In such encounters, the aliens have sometimes disguised
themselves in order to gain the cooperation of the abductee, appearing in
such forms as Jesus, the Pope, certain celebrities, and even the dead
spouses of the abductees."
CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE:
"Children abductees sometimes show a new and obsessive interest in
their own genitalia after alien encounters, saying that their abductors
who come at night have been touching these parts of their bodies."
PAINFUL AND TERRIFYING MEDICAL PROCEDURES:
"Aliens perform extremely painful experiments or procedures
on abductees, saying that these acts are necessary but giving no
explanation why. Abductees' eyes are painfully removed from the
sockets, allowing the aliens to scrape the area or implant devices
into the area before the eyeballs are replaced, for instance. Some
abductees are subjected to painful constrictions, often around the
head, chest and extremities. Painful genitalia and anal probes are
performed, on children as well as adults."
S0-CALLED 'ALIEN PROPHECIES':
"Aliens make predictions of an imminent period of global chaos and
destruction. They say that a certain number of humans -- and the number
varies dramatically from case to case -- will be 'rescued' from the planet
in order to continue the species, either on another planet or back on
earth after the destruction is over. Many abductees report that they
don't believe their alien captors and foresee instead a much more sinister
use of the 'rescued' humans.
(Note: This reminds me of the
vision/dream one man related of a mass alien landing and 'harvest' amidst
global chaos, with aliens encouraging humans to board their craft so as to
escape to a better place, however in the vision/dream this man had the
distinct impression that those who boarded these craft would be entering
a living hell... Satan's rapture? - Branton)
COLLECTIVE
HALLUCINATION OR COLLECTIVE EXPERIENCE?:
"In every instance from this list, there are multiple reports from
unrelated cases, confirming that such bizarre details are not
the product of a single deranged mind. These details are convincing
evidence that, contrary to the claims of many UFO researchers, the
abduction experience isn't limited to a uniform pattern of events. This
phenomenon simply can't be explained [exclusively] in terms of
cross-breeding experiments or scientific research into the human
physiology.
SPIRITUALLY ENLIGHTENED?:
"And it becomes clear from these details that the beings who are doing
such things can't be seen as spiritually enlightened, with the best
interest of the human race in mind. Something else is going on, something
far more painful and frightening, in many, many abduction encounters.
There is a theory current in ufological research that says abductees who
perceive their experiences in a negative way only do so because they
themselves aren't spiritually or psychically advanced. Persons with
higher cosmic development have positive alien encounters, so the theory
goes, and those who have painful or frightening experiences are merely
spiritual Neanderthals. This is a pet theory of researchers who claim
that aliens, whether objectively real or not, serve as 'mirrors' of our
spiritual nature, on an individual or a species-wide basis. Streiber has
voiced this theory, for instance, in Majestic, where he says, 'In the eyes
of the others [the aliens], we who met them saw ourselves. And there were
demons there'.
(Note: On one segment of the STRANGE UNIVERSE TV show,
Whitley Streiber commented on a reputed video-tape of a military
interrogation of a reptilian 'grey' alien at Area-51. Streiber showed
extreme rage and stated in essence that he was astonished that one of
these "wonderful people" could be in such a situation, and that the
interrogation was "one of the most evil" acts in human history. Streiber
did relate time and time again in his writings about the absolute stark
terror and evil he encountered in relation to the aliens. He also stated
in essence that the terror and pain consumed him to the degree that he
felt that the 'old' Whitley disappeared and something else took its place.
Could it be that 'Whitley Streiber' is no longer home, in a certain
sense, and that the 'person' who reacted to the video was NOT exactly the
same 'Whitley' who resided there before his major abduction experiences
began? The use of pain, torture and terror is a common and well known
means of mind-control and mental fragmentation among 'insiders'. In the
throes of pain and emotional intensity or even sexual stimulation it is
easy to induce hypnotic programming or even an alternate or "alter"
personality within a mind-controlled subject. - Branton).
Having
worked with so many decent, honest, positively oriented abductees,
however, I believe this theory is wrong. It is worse than wrong -- it is
despicable, as despicable as blaming a rape victim for the violence
committed against her. This attitude [that they have negative experiences
because they are not spiritually developed enough] leaves many abductees
feeling doubly violated, first by the aliens who took them and then by the
UFO researchers to whom they turn for explanations and help. But it is
easy to understand why such a theory would be so popular. Humans have a
deep need to believe in the power of good. We need for the aliens to be a
good force, since we feel so helpless in their presence. And we need for
some superior force to offer us a hope of salvation, both personally and
globally, when we consider the sorry state of the world. I think the
aliens know this about us -- they know that we want and hope for them to
be benevolent creatures -- and they USE our desire for goodness to
manipulate us. What better way to gain our cooperation than to tell us
that the things they are doing are for our own good? But looking at the
actions, the results of alien interference such as the long list above.
There is a great discrepancy between what we desire from them and what
they are doing to us."
BENEVOLENT KIDNAPPING?
"Not all abduction reports are filled with frightening or painful
events, of course. Many people say that their alien encounters felt
benevolent, that their ABDUCTORS treated them kindly or at least with a
scientific detachment. Some abductees recall being told that they were
'special,' that they were 'chosen,' and that they have an important task
to perform for the benefit of humanity. Given such a positive message,
the abductees may ignore the fear and the pain of their encounters and
insist to themselves and to others that a higher motive underlies the
abduction experience. And, in some cases, all that an abductee REMEMBERS
is a benevolent encounter and so has no reason to assume any negative
action has occurred."
MORE ON SCREEN MEMORIES:
"Intensive research shows that at the core of the human-alien interaction
there is a clear pattern of DECEPTION. We know, for instance, that
"screen memories" are often used to mask an alien abduction. Such
accounts abound, in which a person sees a familiar yet out-of-place
animal, like a deer or owl, a monkey or a rabbit, and then experiences a
period of missing time. The person often awakens later to find a new,
unexplained scar on his body. Uneasiness about the encounter will
persist, however, and far different memories may start to surface in
dreams or flashbacks, and then the person seeks help to explain the
uneasiness. Quite often, hypnotic regression is used to uncover the
events behind the "screen memory," and that is when a typical alien
abduction surfaces. The most recent research in which I've been involved
has turned up yet a second sort of screening process. If it turns out to
be accurate, then thousands of abduction cases are in urgent need of
re-examination. The typical scenario of undergoing the regressive
hypnosis usually results in penetration of the initial blocked memories.
The abductee then recalls an encounter, hitherto unremembered, such as
undergoing a physical examination of some sort, perhaps having body
tissues removed or having a gynecological exam. Other typical reports
include the taking of sperm and ova, of being told of an important task to
be carried out, or of receiving a warning of upcoming disaster. And in
most cases, both the abductee and the investigator come away from the
hypnosis session feeling that they have discovered the truth about the
experience. Rationalization leads them to believe that the aliens'
purposes must be scientifically objective or benevolent. The less
threatening and more benevolent the hypnotically recalled event seems, the
more satisfied are the investigator and the abductee. "That wasn't so
bad, now, was it? These beings are our friends, or at least they are not
our enemies." And everyone goes away with a sense of relief. I have yet
to hear of a researcher who actually questions the uncovered scenario.
But from several recent cases, it is apparent that these recovered
memories may well also be yet another screen, masking events that are much
more reprehensible. I will explain one such case, to make the point
clear."
A STRANGE REPORT.
"A man in his late 40's came to us to explore several alien-related
events in his life, and in the interview he told of a strange, although
not apparently alien-oriented, episode that had haunted him since
childhood. When he was ten years old, his grandmother came to visit in
his home, and since the house was small, she shared his bed on the first
night of her visit. During the night, the boy was awakened by a loud male
voice. He couldn't understand what the voice was saying, but it sounded
angry and was addressing the grandmother lying beside him. The next
morning, he asked his grandmother, "What was that voice in the bedroom
last night?" His grandmother, with tears in her eyes, pulled him tightly
to her and said, "That was the devil." She said nothing more about the
episode, but she did insist that her son take her back to her own home
immediately. It was an unreasonable request, and her son tried to talk
her out of it. But the grandmother was adamant, and finally her son
agreed to take her home the following day. The entire family made the
trip of over a hundred miles back to the grandmother's farm, and within an
hour of their arrival, the grandmother suffered a massive stroke and died.
Ever since that event, the man had felt a heavy burden of guilt
associated with his grandmother's death. Yet there was no conscious
reason for him to have felt that way. The entire event was poignant and
mystifying, but in all the alien encounters he had subsequently undergone,
he had felt that the aliens were his friends and were helping him by
expanding his psychic abilities."
[Interview continued. In response
to a question about the 'psychic vampire' nature of the aliens, Karla
states]:
KT: ...Yes. Now you are getting to why may be the crux of the
'harvest.' That may be that they not only need emotional energy, but also
at least one faction [and I would be tempted, if I were to guess, that
they would be reptoids] actually uses the physical bodies. They are
trying hard to get us detached from our bodies by telling us that they are
"only containers." Why? Because they eat our bodies. If a cow knew you
were going to eat it, you would want to tell that cow [if they could
understand], "Your body is not important. It doesn't matter."
[In
response to a question about the spiritual nature of the Greys and the
Reptiloids]:
KT: I think it is something to think about. I don't believe the grays
have souls, but are more like 'Frankensteins' or 'zombies' or whatever
term you want to use for the "living dead." When I have been with them, I
have had an overwhelming feeling that they are not alive -- that they are
dead. (Note: Or... as investigator Val Valerian puts it, they have an
"anti-life" field. - Branton)
Dr. Gregory L. Little has added the
following in regards to Karla Turner's experiences:
Karla told of walking into her home at night when a being grabbed
hold of her arm. The creature told her it was her mother, but Karla
stated that it looked like a giant grasshopper. Another time, Karla was
coming home through her back yard when she felt like she "...had hit an
electric fence. I wasn't feeling right...wasn't moving right ...there was
a glow everywhere...I stopped...and saw four gray beings standing side by
side in my backyard. I assumed I was having a hallucination (but) I'm
awake -- why? I felt I could see through them and they talked to me
telepathically.
"'Greetings, we are your ancestors,' they said. 'We are a part of you,
but we are real.'
"I couldn't move as I normally do," Karla continued. "Then two females
behind me came up close -- they started buzzing."
"'They are giving you some instructions,' they told me."
Karla and Casey [her husband] have become involved with a
variety of MUFON investigators since the uncovering of their memories as
well as conducting a variety of their own investigations. They have
somewhat specialized in sexual abductions and been influenced by the
popular books Intruders, Missing Time, and others...
The 'modern' aliens associated with sexual abductions now appear to
fall into three broad categories. The traditional grays are nearly always
present. Male grays seldom engage in intercourse, but some female grays
do. The grays often connect bizarre devices to the sex organs of
abductees and insert needles in an apparent attempt to collect sperm and
ovum samples. Then there are the more sinister creatures described as
reptilian, grasshopper-like, or mantis-like. These creatures, whose
sexual organs are described as ice cold, often have intercourse with
humans. Finally, there are creatures that, except for their dress, would
be indistinguishable from humans. They are sometimes described as Nordic
in appearance -- tall blondes with blue eyes. These abductors have, at
times, had intercourse with abductees.
(Note: At this point, Dr. Little attempts to bridge the gap between the
technological and metaphysical aspects of the UFO phenomena by revealing
the direct links between many modern UFO encounters and ancient encounters
with incubi, succubi, faeries, elementals and other deamon-like
supernatural beings and the many similarities between these ancient
'demonic' abductions and the modern 'alien' abductions. Since the 1950's,
UFOlogists have engaged in MAJOR disputes over whether the 'aliens' are
supernatural beings or physical beings. Sometimes these disputes have
been so divisive that one might think the aliens themselves were engaged
in some type of 'divide and conquer' strategy to keep people from finding
the truth. The fact is, most UFO encounters STRONGLY suggest that the
beings involved ARE physical beings, yet at the same time they are
CHANNELS for other supernatural forces that are seemingly possessing and
controlling the physical hosts. These exterran-quanterran-subterran
aliens might be referred to as techno-sorcerers. In other words --
although most would be appalled at even the thought of it -- it would seem
that 'demons', if you will, have somehow managed to incarnate within a
group of PHYSICAL beings to the point where they could have absolute
control of these beings and in essence attain physical 'bodies' through
which they could manipulate third dimensional material reality. This
would involve the terrifying prospect that demons who have attained
'physical bodies' might in turn work to prepare more bodies for their
discarnate comrades, so that these too could engage in
technological-psychological-supernatural warfare against mankind and
attack our physical-mental-spiritual natures simultaneously. If God is
Infinite, which I firmly believe, then no matter how much of a threat
these "repti-geists" become, IF WE BELIEVE, we can counter that threat and
more! If one were viewing the alien phenomena from an eschatological
perspective one might correctly think that this would all involve some
ancient Luciferian agenda to 're-conquer' the heavens, if the 'aliens'
possess interplanetary or interstellar travel technologies [see:
Revelation chapter 12]. In the case of the 'reptilians', the Edenic drama
of Genesis chapter 3 may have been repeating itself over and over again
since ancient times, with the Luciferians [poltergeists] incarnating the
Reptilian Greys [serpents] and deceiving mankind [the serpent's lies]
into accepting their occult technology [forbidden fruit] which would give
the 'elite' godlike powers over their fellow man ["ye shall be as
gods"]... with fallen elements from all three creations -- angelic, human,
and beast -- collaborating together within underground bases like Dulce,
which are layed-out in an unusual tree-like manner [the tree of knowledge,
or the tree of 'da-ath' -- i.e. 'cunning' in the original Hebrew], where
these fallen beings conspire together against God Almighty and His plan
for perfect order and equality. - Branton)
"Just like modern UFO abductors do, demons have long been collecting
sperm samples from male victims. According to the ancient reports, the
succubus gathers semen from the male victims so that the demon can fully
perform the sex act and sometimes impregnate its female victim when acting
as an incubus. In Thomas Aquinas' 13th century book Summa Theologica he
wrote:
"'...if sometimes children are born from intercourse with demons,
this is not because of the semen emitted by them, or from the bodies they
have assumed, but through the semen taken from some man for this purpose,
seeing that the same demon who acts as a succubus for a man becomes an
incubus for a woman.'"
"...For several thousand years there have been reports of alien
abduction for sexual purposes. Because of the number of reports coming
from early church members, much attention was given the phenomenon during
the 1200s and 1300s. Here are a few summaries by the church from this
time period:
"De Trinitate: 'Devils do indeed collect human semen...therefore
devils can transfer the semen which they have collected and inject it into
the bodies of others.'
"Bonaventura wrote: 'Devils in the form of women yield to males and
receive their semen; by cunning skill, the demons preserve its potency,
and afterwards,...they become incubi and pour it into female
repositories.'
"Just as in modern UFO reports, the incubus desiring to have sex
with a human will adjust its shape to one that lowers resistance of its
victim. In 1698 Johann Klein reported on a court case where a woman
claimed to have been impregnated by her long-gone husband. A creature
taking his form appeared to her at night in her bedroom where she simply
couldn't resist. Many other victims of an incubus claimed that the
incubus appeared to them as a person (deceased) they knew and loved.
[So then, might not the above -- that is, various levels of interaction
between demons and 'Dracos' or other 'engineered' physical forms --
explain the various unusual, although morbid, encounters that have been
reported by abductees, such as the following incident that the late Karla
Turner reported, as paraphrased by Greg Little?]:
Karla told a story
about a grandmother with her young grandson. The grandmother had been a
widow for several years when she was forced to drink a liquid handed to
her by an alien who appeared in her bedroom late one night.
After she
drank the thick fluid, she became young again. A reptilian-like alien
then attempted to have intercourse with her but she resisted. Then the
alien brought in her 'dead husband' who began making sexual advances to
her. The grandmother had intercourse with the creature that appeared as
her husband, but eventually saw that it was a reptilian. After finishing
with the grandmother, the reptilians had anal and oral intercourse with
her young grandson...
(Now you can begin to see why I am a firm
advocate of 'draconicide'. Sure, if it comes down to all-out war,
UNCONDITIONAL surrender should first be offered to the reptilian nemesis,
however if they refuse, dracocide should be carried out to the fullest
against these alien 'cancer cells'. Trying to negotiate a truce with
creatures that have NEVER honored a truce -- at least there has never been
any evidence forthcoming that these creatures of the 'Draconian Hive' have
done so -- is nothing less than suicide, for as their cousins of old,
these dragon-people demand human sacrifices as part of any negotiation,
whether it be in the form of a government turning a blind eye to human
'abductions', or an ancient king in the times of Camelot sacrificing
virgins to appease the creatures of chaos who plagued their kingdoms.
Perhaps these ancient tales have a lesson for us, namely that the only way
to negotiate with such tumorous creatures is with the point of the sword
and the lance. Whether the stories of the ancient dragonslayers are
literal or symbolic, they nevertheless contain valuable truths in either
case... as we can see from the following account of St. George, as
recorded in the TIME-LIFE series, 'THE ENCHANTED WORLD' - Branton):
"...In an age abrim with valiant deeds, dragon fighters --
men and women who vanquished the mighty beasts one by one --
established an unmatched standard of courage. And among that
glorious company of warriors, Saint George was the nonpareil.
Clad in silver armor, riding a horse caparisoned in gold and
always displaying the sign of the Christians -- a red cross on a
white field -- he galloped through the stories and songs of the
European lands, the harbinger of Christianity and its civilizing
order, and the hammer of the dragon race. The fame of this
soldier-saint was such that for centuries after his death, he
was claimed as the protector of England, Catalonia, Aragon,
Italy and Greece, and revered in such diverse parts of Lithuania,
Portugal and Constantinople.
"In England, his feast day, April 23, was a national
holiday, celebrated with splendid processions, with pageants
and plays. And England's highest honor, the Order of the Garter,
was established in his name.
"Saint George was the patron of all who had to do with
battle -- knights, archers, saddlemakers and swordsmiths...
"Yet who was he? Few knew, for a panoply of legends shone
around him: He was said to have slain dragons at Mansfeld in the
center of Germany; he was also said to have killed a dragon in
England, in Berkshire, where the people pointed to a place called
Dragon Hill, made grassless and barren by the venomous blood
of his (St. George's) victim. Yet the first account of Saint
George's slaying of a dragon is set not in Europe at all, but
far south, in Africa...
"It was a savage dragon, sprung from somewhere in the bleak
hills that divided the fertile coastal plains from the desert,
and it settled in a marsh not far from the walls of the city.
"The evidence of this presence appeared only gradually.
Mangled carcasses of sheep and cattle were occasionally found
in remote pastures; from time to time, also, the bloated corpses
of travelers and shepherds were seen lying at the edge of the
desert. Then the deaths began to happen closer to home, near
the villages and hamlets that lay on the outskirts of the city.
Children died, and the cows in their byres and the sheep in their
pens. In Silene, whispers began. The curfew was rung early in
the evenings, and the great gates were closed. Few people were
so reckless as to stay outside the walls at night.
"The dragon was thus deprived of easy game. But when it
struck Silene, it came in broad daylight. A watchman at the
gate felt the ground shudder; he squinted into the distance and
saw the sloughing beast, its scales shining in the African sun,
trails of smoke curling around its head, and he gave the alarm.
The gates were closed and barricaded. People crowded the walls
as the armored serpent approached -- on massive legs tipped with
curving claws.
"The dragon did nor attack at once. It slithered along the
base of the walls, nosing at crevices, trying its strength on the
gates. The gates held, however. High on the walls, the watching
people of the city stirred and sighed. But then, the dragon
threw back its head and howled. A spurt of foul-smelling,
flaming liquid shot from the cruel mouth, snaked up the walls and
poured over the battlements. The citizens who had gathered there
were bathed in the caustic liquid. Writhing and screaming, they
fell from the walls. The dragon devoured them on the spot.
"That was the beginning of a time of terror. The (Libyan)
city was besieged: Every day the dragon clawed at the gate and
spewed its noxious venom over the ramparts. Outside the walls,
the villages were silent and the fields untended; all the farmers
had fled or been killed by the beast. Inside the city, people
kept to their houses. The streets were empty, the markets
vacant, the squares deserted. And no one ventured forth in an
attempt to slay the creature, for its poison killed agonizingly
and quickly. Sword and lance were useless against it.
"Casting about for a means of appeasement, the king who
ruled Silene decreed that two sheep be tied up outside the walls
as a daily offering. The tactic seemed to work at first. Each
day at dawn, soldiers led the sheep to a stake outside the gates
and tied them there. The men then, retraced and stood shivering
behind the ramparts with the rest of the citizenry as the dragon
claimed its gift with a horrible crunching of bones and smacking
of lips. Well-fed, the beast left Silene alone. But the day
came when the city had no more sheep to offer, and the dragon
began to circle the walls ceaselessly, spitting its deadly venom
at any living target.
"And thus began the lottery. Every day in the chill hour
before down, the people of Silene gathered in the square before
the King's palace. From a great brass urn, they drew ivory
counters that in happier times had been used for gambling. But
this gamble was desperate, for the one who lost by drawing a
marked counter was condemned to die so that the rest of the
citizens might live one more day. Wailing and lamentation arose
in the dusty square as the victims name was revealed. The person
was tied to the stake outside the gates, just as the sheep had
been, and died no less cruelly.
"One morning, the marked counter fell to the daughter of
Silene's King. The crowd -- now much reduced by daily sacrifice
-- moved away from the ruler and his child. The King stood
motionless, a man turned to stone. He shook his head from side
to side, and tears coursed down his face. But when the people
began to murmur, he bowed in assent, and two of his guards moved
toward the Princess.
"They led her into the palace, and there her maidens clothed
her all in white, as if to meet a bridegroom. Then they took her
through the quiet streets, out to the slaughter ground. In the
charred and bloodied landscape, among the bleaching bones of
earlier victims, the soldiers bound her to the stake and left her
to die.
"But while the beast still slept in its lair, a man on
horseback appeared on the eastern horizon, just ahead of the
rising sun. Its rays struck his silver armor and formed a nimbus
of light around his body as he rode toward the Princess, across
the withered and treeless fields where no birds sang to greet the
day. He was George, a Roman knight -- BUT a Christian, as the red
crosses on his sword belt showed. He was riding abroad in search
of adventure, and he had come to the place of his trial. He drew
rein beside the Princess and bent from his saddle to hear her
tale.
"The Princess begged the knight to leave her to her death.
He only laughed -- a strong and joyous sound in that place -- and
wheeled his horse towards the dragon's den. The hoofbeats roused
the beast, and it sprang screaming from its lair, head thrown
back to spit venom and fire. But the knight was upon it before
it could draw breath. As it reared to strike, his lance pierced
its side, and the poison from its jaws trickled harmlessly to the
ground. The knight moved in for the kill.
"How the dragon died is a matter of debate. That the knight
killed it, all chronicles grant. But some accounts say that he
gave the death blow on the spot, while others declare that he cut
the sign of the Cross into the wounded creature's belly and led
the dragon back into Silene. There he demanded as payment the
conversion of the people to Christianity, and when the religion
was accepted, he struck off the dragon's head. It was said, too,
that the Princess became the bride of her rescuer..."
HERE THERE DRAGONS BE
In tortured lands, where cowards cry
And fall along the road to die
A man must live the way of right
Pure and chaste, with Godly might
For lesser men will live not long
But in a wisp of smoke, be gone
For lesser men do not but cower
When they contend with dragon power
Then what will be of maidens fair
If heroes die in dragon's lair?
And where will all the children play
If thundering wings chase them away?
Here the dragons rule the sky
And search the earth with evil eye
To foist upon the sons of man
Their vile intent and wicked plan
Then, in their reptilian glee
Into their earthen holes they flee
With naught of guilt or recompense
To eat their captive audience
In such a land, where man doth roam
And plow the earth to make a home
It takes a man of Godly faith
Who fights with supernatural strength
Whose armor 'gainst each foe defends
Whose shield each arrow's fall portends
A man who'll spit at evil's taint
Who'll not back down, nor weary, faint
A man who's steed will battle brave
And hold his foot in deepest cave
He’ll never for his life take care
And run not from the dragon's stare
Such man, who's deemed a Saintly Knight
Would storm the dark to bring the light
He'll not retreat from scorching flame
But quench the fire in God's Own Name
Of such a man the bards will sing
A man of fate who would be king
If such a man your mirror sees
Then come, for Here There Dragons Be
-- Donald P. Harris
Archive date: 11-23-00
File:
http://www.reptilianagenda.com/exp/e112300a.html
Supplied by B. Alan Walton
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